Will Irving be better than Wall?

Kyrie's game is this awesome, duh

Kyrie Irving and John Wall invite comparison, but so rarely is the offer accepted. In a universe where the public frames dissimilar basketball strangers like LeBron and Kobe as heated rivals–in the way a child narrates a fight between toys that have no real-world beef–I expected more “Irving vs. Wall” talk. But, the 10’ and 11’ number ones aren’t thought of as sharing cultural airspace despite sharing a draft position, playing position, NBA conference.

If you look for Irving vs. Wall comps, most of that stuff is from over a year ago. It was easier to think of Kyrie as the “next John Wall,” before the Jersey kid got on the national stage. When Irving started playing at Duke, two things happened: 1. He produced with greater efficiency than John Wall did at Kentucky 2. People were not so enthralled by his athletic promise, like they were with John Wall’s.

Then Kyrie got injured, retained his number one status, a status this is currently cited as an indictment of the 2011 draft. “The next John Wall” is now “the reason this draft sucks,” mostly on account of his smallish 11 game sample size. Also, Irving is not thought of as a franchise-morphing superstar in the John Wall mode. Unlike his number-one pick predecessor, Kyrie is a hype orphan. The stat-lovers who should be touting Irving’s metrics are scared by the sample-size. The scouts who should love his athletic, slashing play, prefer Wall’s combine-tangible physical prowess.

Kyrie Irving looked to be the much better college basketball player in his brief stint. As Beckley so often says, he played “a perfect 11 games.” I watched most of these, and was struck by the athleticism that many draftniks find lacking. Irving burned opponents on coast-to-coast drives with a control that looked effortless. He attacked with a methodical violence, often shifting pace like a pitcher changing speeds. In stylistic contrast, John Wall attacked with a predictable straight-line velocity that blurred my HD feed, but compromised Wall’s ability to keep possession. To continue the cross-sport analogy, Wall was a flame-thrower who struggled at taming his 103 MPH heaters into the strike zone.

Scouts prefer the latter skillset and they could be right. I recall not being impressed by Derrick Rose, the college player, and look at what young Derrick has already become in the NBA. Rose produced lukewarm NCAA stats, but did so with an athletic flair that draftniks correctly recognized as valuable.

Wall is thought to be the next Rose and he did little to dispel such notions as a rookie. Injuries nagged an otherwise solid year and I have high expectations for his future. But I don’t think Wall will be better than Irving, a player Chad Ford compares to Mo Williams.

My bet is on Kyrie’s small-sample productivity, his handling dexterity and his shooting. I’m predicting a superior career for the most under-hyped first pick since Andrew Bogut. Fast point guards tend to overperform in the NBA, especially if they shoot well in college. Irving’s 50-40-90 was whatever a red flag isn’t. And though it is awkward to cite stats when the sample seems insufficient, my eyes tell me to trust the numbers.

Follow Ethan @SherwoodStrauss

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I think it's funny that a point guard seemingly has to be in the mould of Derrick Rose to be successful. Let's not forget that the best point guards over the years (Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Mark Price, etc)... none of them had the athleticism of Derrick Rose or John Wall. So why is that athleticism now required for a point guard to be an elite player? Steve Nash has two MVPs and can barely dunk the ball. Point guard is truly the one position on the court where athleticism matters the least. So no, in no way is it a sure thing that John Wall will be a better pro than Kyrie Irving. In fact, after watching both guys play, I am strongly of the same opinion as the author of this article.

I have to agree with this. Wall's inefficiency is a bit of a red flag for me and I don't know that he's ever going to improve that significantly. Wall is the better athlete, but Irving is more skilled offensively and I think that's going to translate better to the NBA.

Irving is a complete player at the PG position on both ends of the floor. Watch and see! D-Williams while exciting to watch is only a good scorer and will be a defensive liability at which eveer pos 3 or 4. He's gonna get killed by the Durant's, Lebron's, Gasol's, Randolph's, Deng etc. etc. He's a low budget Chris Bosh at best and will need a good 3 and 5 around him to be sucessful because he's not going to survive as a tweener.

When you look at a guy like John Wall, it would almost be impossible for a guy like Irving or anyone for that matter to become better, if he reaches his full potential and that's why I disagree. Indeed Irving might have to become the best player in NBA history. John Wall represents the pinnacle of NBA talent. Unless your merely refering to effeciency over stats and even then the future is unknown.

Irving was an obvious choice with the #1 pick. But he is not John Wall or Derrick Rose. He is clearly a couple of notches lower athletically. He's more like Chris Paul (smart, polished, extremely well rounded), with slightly less athleticism. Sidenote: How could you not be impressed with Derrick Rose and John Wall??? Talk about freak athletes.

@gque... you obviously never watched kyrie irving play last year before he got injured. dont deny it, i know you never watched him. just stop commenting like an expert when you dont know anything. irving was real slick and was easily the best pick in the draft.

Any post with a picture from the cartoon series Dino-Riders, gains my attention. Thanks for the work.

To Think a guy who only played 8 games irving (The most overrated #1 pick in history of NBA = he is not great at anything = average player still not ready for NBA. Media driven forced #1 pick and Cavs fell for the bait instead of taking a bonifide player in Williams = big mistake! The # of games played by Irving compared to Wall cant be put to a head to head matchup and deliver an accurate assesment. Just stop reaching with this pointless Blog!

I love Irving’s game, and you’re right that he already has some polished skills that Wall doesn’t – change of pace to keep defenders off-balance, a 3-point shot, to name a couple. But stardom in the NBA isn’t always a matter of who checks off the most skills boxes; it’s often more about “who does one or two things that almost nobody can stop?” And I think Wall meets that criteria better than any PG in the league (except possibly Rose). Wall’s combo of size, explosiveness and speed is just astounding. Last year, he suffered through injuries, Wizards trades and possibly the lowest-IQ teammates in NBA history – and still finished 7th in the league in apg. His court vision is very good, and his defense should end up being terrific. Plus, he seems like he wants to be truly great and is willing to put in the work. Now, Wall has to develop a consistent jumper, and he has to protect the ball better. But those same things were true of Rose 2 years ago. And if Wall isn’t as ridiculously gifted as Rose, well, he’s certainly in the same ballpark. And Irving, for all of his polish and skills, isn’t.

@Gravity Seriously, how could an 11-foot point guard like Kyrie Irving fail?

"the 10’ and 11’ number ones..." Dang, these guys are tall.

It seems a little silly to me to be comparing these two guys with a combined 1 year of experience in the NBA. For Irving, it's nearly impossible to project how he will turn out as he's only had 11 games against NCAA competition, and for Wall, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to use him as a benchmark since he's entering his 2nd year and has a long way to go as well.

Trackbacks

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  2. [...] other day, friend/cohort Ethan Sherwood Strauss explored the idea that Kyrie Irving in all of his efficient splendor would end up being a better point guard than [...]

  3. [...] Scouts prefer the latter skillset and they could be right. I recall not being impressed by Derrick Rose, the college player, and look at what young Derrick has already become in the NBA. Rose produced lukewarm NCAA stats, but did so with an athletic flair that draftniks correctly recognized as valuable. Wall is thought to be the next Rose and he did little to dispel such notions as a rookie. Injuries nagged an otherwise solid year and I have high expectations for his future. But I don’t think Wall will be better than Irving, a player Chad Ford compares to Mo Williams.” [Strauss/Hoopspeak.com] [...]

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  5. [...] came the John Wall comparisons. If merely rooted in draft position and one-and-done collegiate careers, this juxtaposition [...]

  6. [...] resisted the urge to write about Kyrie Irving because I’ve resisted the urge to do a “He’s awesome, I told ya so, I am great by proxy” victory dance. But the jig is up, or on in this case. When Irving submits a performance like [...]

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