The LeBron hate debate

You guys are crazy, how can you hate someone that you dont even know? It's just basketball, so what if LeBron joined the heat. Would anyone hate him if he had stayed in Cleveland and lost in the 2nd round again? No they would still call him a choker or say that he should have gone to another team. He is put in a lose-lose situation because fans expect him to care what they think about his decision to pick where he wants to play as opposed to being locked in long term on a crappy team. If anything, I hope that this becomes a trend in the NBA. LeBron as a player was too good for the Cavaliers. We expect him to win championships, he wasn't going to do that in Cleveland. You know it and I know it, that was impossible. Did any of you really expect him to be like Dirk and wait 13 years to win a ring? Let's be realistic here, fans can't have it both ways... Either LeBron isn't a leader and decided to be Wade's sidekick, which means that it's Wade's fault that the heat lost because it's his team. Or LeBron joined the heat to get away from having to do everything himself and play on a team that actually has a chance at winning the rings that everyone expects him to win. Does it matter which team he wins on? Did he have to do it in Cleveland? Had he gone to New York and played with Amare no one would be complaining about the Decision, I wanted him to go to the Knicks. Dont be mad at him because he chose his own destiny and decided to take less money to play on a winning team as opposed to taking a max contract to lose like Joe Johnson did. This LeBron hate says more about the fans than it does about Lebron. It shows what some of you fans really care about and it isn't winning.

I am one of millions of people who don't like Lebron James. He led the Cavaliers organization on and should have been honest with them and let them know ahead of time about the deal with the Heat. He owed them that. He aired his "decision" on television. He is the only NBA player that has ever done this. And then he, Wade and Bosh sat up on a stage in a preseason celebration claiming they were going to win 3,4,5,6 championships....BEFORE the season started. Before playing all of the other talent in the league. That thing he does with the chalk is annoying, especially when he does it on another team's court. And the way that he behaved during and after the NBA finals shows how arogant, entitled and narcissistic he is. Mocking Dirk with the other d-bag, DWade, was immature (Dirk got it right). Lebron's post game press conference when he dissed us "commoners" was offensive. There are definitely other extremely arrogant players in the NBA. Carmelo, Kobe, and DWade come to mind. But I think Lebron is completely incapable of humbling, learning from mistakes, maturing, etc. I can't wait for the day that he retires from the NBA.

One reason people like Ethan find this all so horrible is because they are 12 years old. They grew up in the sanitized era of sports that started in the mid eighties. 30 years ago if you showed up at an Eagles, Giants, or Redskins game with a Cowboys jersey on you were literally putting your life at risk. Players being burned in effigy was not uncommon, in some places it was commonplace. Rather than relying on the media to defend them or deflecting their critics as commoners, players got in bar fights with belligerent fans. The reality is today's pro athletes are, for the most part, treated like royalty from the time they are young children. Coddled by coaches, school administrators, agents, and sponsors. Spoiled brats who are ill-equipped to deal with criticism that comes when that behavior is caught on tape. Lebron's move to Miami will only serve to exacerbate this situation for him. Love him or hate him, I think it's pretty apparent that Lebron is not a born leader. He will tend to follow Heat management's and Dwyane Wade's lead. Both have done him a severe disservice so far. Heat management put him in a awful situation by compounding 'The Decision' with the pre-season championship celebration. Then there's Dwyane Wade. Do you honestly think Lebron would have mocked Dirk Nowitzki had he not been falling in line behind Wade? Dwyane Wade also acts as Lebron's enabler. Lebron has been under a spotlight since entering the NBA, but that spotlight is much brighter since joining the Heat. He should be doing post game press conferences by himself. By doing so he would learn how to handle tough questions. Sure he would make a few mistakes, but he would have learned how to talk to the media by now. He would have learned that admitting he made bad decisions on the court and admitting that he made mistakes off the court doesn't make him weak, it makes him more human and more likable. Combine all this with the fact that he's surrounded himself with management in World Wide Wes and CAA who never say 'no, that's not a good idea' if it means a payday and a bunch of his high school buddies as advisors it's a recipe for disaster. (I'm sure his friends are good people, but lacking in life experience.) I've always had a lot more distaste for Dwyane Wade than Lebron, and while I was hoping for him to lose as I'm a Mavericks fan, I didn't really turn on him until I saw how so many members of the national media were so far up the jock of a guy who's never won anything. Then the mocking Dirk. (I think that says a lot about Wade. Only someone who fakes injuries would accuse others of doing so.) I "hated" on Lebron during the playoffs, but in reality he's a probably a decent kid who's a product of a lot of people seeing him as their ticket to greatness and no one ever sitting him down and giving it to him straight.

I don't hate lebron, I root against him and there is a big difference. I root against him for the same reason we root for the underdog who overachieves. It's not that he's supremely talented; after all we root for guys like Jordan and Tiger woods. It's that Lebron is supremely talented yet underachieves. And we feel cheated. We feel cheated because this guy is so good, yet he takes the easy way out by joining two other superstars. He wants our adulation but doesn't want to work for it. We feel cheated because in the biggest moments he shrinks and passes to juwan howard. The greater the talent the more this infuriates us. He's a frontrunner, he celebrated rather than worked for a real victory, and he had the hubris to rub it in everyone's face.

Dan Shanoff, Get real, I'll straighten some things out for you if you will ALLOW that smart mind that you have to clear itself from the fog of LeBron hate. By the way its ok to use this word. First, lets define hate, because as you said it is tossed around in our society. I will define it in two ways: 1)Text book definition. {To dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest.} This certainly has some validity in decribing the grossness of which LBJ has been bombarded with, and I think you know as much. 2)This is my 'slang' term and the general meaning behind the 'tossed' word. {To find fault in everything; to see bad in all situations as it pertains to an individual or thing, no matter what may actually be there; self (and in many cases) media created villanizing; not giving props to.} This is usally born from the textbook defintion. If you intensely dislike someone you wont see anything good, you will make what isnt really that bad seem like the worst thing ever. So, based on what I've read, seen, and heard, I'd say this word is a pretty good one to use. You've taken exception to the usage of this word to describe the over-the-top reactions to LBJs every breath, with a sort of "its not that serious" rebuttal to Ethan and anyone who terms this 'bashing' as hate. I agree its not that serious, because LBJ NEVER DID ANYTHING TO MAKE IT "THAT SERIOUS". That is what the none hater (notice I didn't say LBJ supporter) is BEMUSED about. Btw, you cannot use that word to describe the, yes, HATE I've observed regarding LBJ. Come correct on you own precision of language. OK, back to task. Ironically my close friend who watches sports casually, asked me "why is there so much going on about LBJ? You would think he killed somebody or something what did he really do?" I laughed and told her, "he went on TV and legally left his hometown team to go to another one, he and the other 2 best players had a pep rally with the teams fans and bragged about how they would win, from there it snowballed into what you're seeing". She laughed and said "thats it?" Then she noted they are "talking about him and his team more than the team that won", and moved on. I consider my friend a casual fan. She played sports, comes from a big sports family (that's alway watching "the game" when we gather together), and watched me play them in college. So, to your argument: Any "non-sheepish" brain that can process and reason for itself understands that Ethan is not refering to the casual fan that you referenced in your defense. No, he's not talking about the viewer that watched the game and said, "Ha, he lost" and "96 hours later hasn't even really thought of LBJ". I think everyone can live with that, its called being a fan whether casual or serious, fans root for or against and they boo and jeer, that's fine. He's talking about the people who have gone beyond simply rooting against. It's the people who write the unbelievable things on yours, ESPNs, and many other blog post that we all see and read. And, yes, it is CRAZY, and its gone OVERBOARD. The social media has certainly fed the flames, period, look at where I'm typing. The people that said "ha, he lost aren't on blogs. Reasonable sports fans and 'fanatics' are. I wouldn't dare try to guess of the 15 million game 6 viewers how many were, lets just say "unreasonable" or, (oh well, I'll say it) fanatic. But, there are enough, check your next LBJ topic comment section. The topic could be about his foundation building a school or much needed library, but the Hate (check the definitions) would show itself. And if its "not that serious" it's at least dumb and ignorant as can be (much like a sheep). Now you seemed to move in your argument that you are a fan and can feel as you wish, true you are, just don't get defensive when the fan next to you looks at you funny and says, "that guy and those people he's with are nuts, they are taking it way to serious". Could it be, the "haters are becoming the hated", "the backlashers are being backlashed" and with that, the the original haters and backlashers are now uncomfortable and defensive, professing their right to be the type of fan they want to be? Are the haters now asking "what did we do"? My answer is you didn't move on. Fine root against, have an opinion, but tone it down already. If there were no blogs or computers and you were at the game you might be escorted out. And the reasonble and casual fan would cheer about it. It seemes you nonchalantly dismiss what the CASUAL FAN actually does see as creepy and way over-the-top as people being bemused. But, I'd say preoccupation is the most under of understatments here. I SERIOUSLY doubt, the 'bashing' will lead to riots, or someone attempting to physically harm LBJ. The worst is probably over, he lost this year, the media had its year long story, used the guy to get their ratings, and the bloggers got their hits. But it doesn't need to go that far to be called out. The fact that "reasonable" sports fans are beginning to call it suggest that those doing it may have gone beyond reasonable (they did before a year later IMO). I find it fascinating that you took issue with Ethan for doing to the likes of you what you and many others have been doing to LBJ, and that is to assign morality, lets admit this has gone beyond rooting for or against, boos and jeers. WHATS WRONG CAN TAKE THE HEAT (no pun intended)? Now try taking it 24/7/356. Oh, I know the argument LBJ is a big boy, and should be able to take it, he makes enough money, it comes with the territory. Well, arent you a big boy too? Money matter none and when you offer opinion, counter opinion comes with the territory. Yet, you needed to question someone who made you feel a little uneasy on one occasion. Wear the big shoes. Take it like the fanati...eh "none-reasonable" fan expects LBJ too. Otherwise someone may stamp you with their morality again and call you a hypocrite. Dan as I said you are smart, you were probably just having fun in this moment. It shows with your latest tweet: "If this past week marks as intense as it gets, I think it was a fun, healthy year spent for fans. If, years from now, the NBA is still dominated by fans rooting against LeBron -- for his failure -- his Decision will have had far worse consequences for us than him." I like this, but I say even next year. It was time to move on a while ago, but now its really time. The question becomes how do you stop the monster that you (generalizing) fed? Thanks Hoopspeak, I would love if you guys shot me an email. I would love to debate this topic with the likes of Dan.

For me as an European it is certainly interesting to follow that discussion. It really is. For the first time (?) in NBA history three stars blatantly line up to be superior. And fans start acting the same way soccer fans act in Europe. Insulting, getting personal and like Ethan stated "you get the feeling that something could have happened." Wow! Don't know if you're aware of the "fan culture" down here, but fans go overboard all the time. It's much more hostile. They throw objects on the court to hurt players and referees. You disliked "We hate Akron?" Weeeeak stuff compared to the chants we have in Europe. Fans even physically turn against their own team when things aren't working too well. Opposing fans have to be separated in the stadium and much more. Incidents doesn't happen every week but multiple time each season. It's only one part of the whole development but to a certain degree it's because fans are jealous when other teams are superior. In Europe there's no salary cap so teams with money can afford bigger stars. Fans of small market teams feel unprivileged and show it. That's where it all starts. They start asking why they don't have a Big 3 and get frustrated. And that's where the hate begins because opposing players stand for a system that they don't like. I know that's too easy but history of mankind shows that the unprivileged will at some point do something against the establishment. That's why it is so important for small market teams to stay or to become competitive. I personally thought until this season that the mentality of Americans is just different. There are rivalries and of course you say you "hate" some players of opposing teams. But if you would ever meet them you'll ask them to sign your basketball. Because at the end of the day you are united in the love for the sport. And that's great. That's what I always adored. But following this season my opinion slightly changed. Maybe the league-system (Draft, salary cap) just delayed an unavoidable development. More than ever I think it's clear that great players will walk away from small market teams. That annoys fans. That leads to aggression. And sometimes it starts small but when initiated it's hard to stop. Today they are hating LeBron, tomorrow they hate everybody who's not a [insert your favorite team here] fan. And if you don't believe me just look overseas. It's already reality there. We have to deal with much more violent things on a daily basis. Don't want to overstate though. It was one season. Maybe only an unique mix of stars lining up, acting immature, celebrating too early and stuff... Maybe things will settle. I would wish for it. I can't imagine an European fan culture in American Sports. That just shouldn't happen.